Is this a genuine transaction or a VERY elaborate fraud?

If you have been defrauded, or suspect some fraud, that is NOT escrow related, then please air your comments here. The more that's here, the more people can be informed.

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Is this a genuine transaction or a VERY elaborate fraud?

Postby wow » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:14 pm

intro: I got interested in escrow/ebay fraud after I came incredibly close to getting tricked out of £1500+ earlier this year. Since then I have helped ebay close down several fraudulent auctions, mainly "trading" in mobile phones.

(LONG but an interesting tale. No tragedy involved and no greedy thiefs getting rich)

Ok, I'll try to be as brief as I can.

I saw an auction on ebay recently, selling 10 ericsson mobile phones. As someone who is always interested in buying several phones and reselling them, I looked at the auction.

The user had zero feedback and stated that he would sell, "minimum 5 units" (per person). In addition, he would not state a desired method of payment or give any payment information whatsoever. I contacted ebay to alert them to a possible fraud and received a typically pathetic response, "ebay will investigate this matter" etc.

The auction ended and showed about 15 winning bidders, all of whom wanted 1 or 2 phones. I decided that I would contact the seller personally, assuming this was a scam. I sent an email expressing an interest in purchasing 5 phones. This was the first reply:

"Hello,

The price for 5 phones is £1200 including all the shipping cost.I will close this deal through eBay method but for this i need to know your full name and address where i send you the phones.And after that the eBay will email you with all the details regarding how you make the payment.

I will wait your email asap.

Thank You"


(sent 22 September 2004 17:39:53)

but then

Hello,

The price for 5 phones is £600 including all the shipping cost.Please let me know your full name and address where i send you the phones.

Thank You


(sent 22 September 2004 21:54:52)

£1200 to £600 Quite a reduction in just 4 hours!

I sent an email asking about what payment method he'd like me to use, his reply:

"I have on account of $20000 to eBay and if you not receive the phones they are send you the money back and for that i will close this deal through eBay method but for this i need to know your full name and address where i send you the phones.And after that the eBay will email you with all the details regarding how you make the payment.

I will wait your email asap.

Thank You"


So, still no indication of which payment method. "Smells like a Western Union Scam" I thought.

I decided that I would appear to take the bait. I thought about giving an entirely false address but thought better of it. "Think of a UK postcode". I did, SW19 (Wimbledon). Using one of these online map programmes, I typed in SW19 as the address and zoomed in. I found a street, made up a house name and assumed there would be a number 3 on the street.

So, after I gave the address I received an email telling me that he'd contacted FedEx and arranged the shipment. Please would I contact him once I'd heard from FedEx. "Hmm".

I just received an email, apparently from FedEx. It lists him address as:

Patrick Bergun
Str. Prenestina 140
Roma
01188
Italy

Below was "my" address. For a brief second, I started thinking this was a genuine deal.

Next thing I knew, ebay had sent me an email :

Please read
Current status: Payment pending

Find exactly what you are looking for in the eBay Gallery. Now you can
search on photos! Check out the Gallery at:
<http://pages.ebay.com/buy/gallery.html>
Today, eBay is the easiest way to send gifts. You may now send eBay
Gift Certificates.

Dear eBay Community Member,
After verifying the trustworthiness of the seller and the availability
of the merchandise for immediate shipping, we have approved your buy it
now transaction and offered you, as the buyer, full purchase protection
for the amount you agreed on with the seller.
Complete your eBay transaction in 5 easy steps:
Buyer and seller agree on the transaction terms and a selling price.
Seller contacts eBay with the transaction details;
eBay accepts the transaction and offers purchase protection to the
buyer (if the transaction is declined, no further action is required
from either the buyer or the seller);
The buyer sends payment and the seller receives it. After the payment
cleared, the seller must notify eBay. Buyer will send the payment
details directly to the seller email address. The seller has three
business days to send the buyer and eBay the tracking number of the
shipment. If no tracking number is provided, a full refund is
immediately sent to the buyer;

Buyer receives the merchandise and has five days to inspect it.
If it is complete and as described, the buyer should accept the
merchandise.
If he refuses the merchandise, the buyer must ship the merchandise
back to the seller within three business days.
After the inspection period is over, the buyer must contact eBay with
the result of the inspection. If the buyer refuses the merchandise,
the refund will be sent to the buyer after the tracking number for the
returned shipment is verified.
To enjoy the purchase protection, you must send the payment by the
insured payment method below. Attention: Sending the payment by any
other method will void this transaction and your right to refund.
Details and instructions of this transaction:

*************************************************
The following item(s) are protected in this eBay transaction:
5 x Sony Ericsson P900
Seller's verified payment address:

Patrick Bergun
Str. Prenestina 140
Roma
01188
Italy

Buyer's shipping address:

Brian McClair
Tion House,
3 Belvedere Grove,
Wimbledon,
SW19


Date of verification: 25/09/2004
Amount insured: GBP 600.00

Payment must be sent by: Western Union Money Transfer
Next step to be taken: The buyer must send the payment to the
seller.

Top of page

Payment instructions:
*******************************************************
To submit the payment with Western Union Money Transfer, you have 2
options:
1. Pay for the transfer with cash at a local Western Union agent.
Click here to locate the agents in your area
<http://www.westernunion.com/info/agentInquiryIntl.asp>.
2. If you now are in the USA and need to use a credit/debit card
(Visa or MC), call 1-800-CALL-CASH and make the payment to the verified
name
of the seller. An additional fee will be charged on most cards because
this transaction will be considered a cash advance on your card.
Western Union Money Transfer is the only service that has ultimate
authentication of the identity of the receiver of funds. Several IDs
and utility bills are required before the funds are paid. Therefore, no
one else but your seller can pick up the money. Your payments cannot be
lost in the mail, like money orders or checks.

However, Western Union Money Transfer is designed mainly for sending
cash to friends and family in need, so telling them you are sending the
money to an eBay seller will prevent your money transfer to go through
and you will be unable to complete this transaction.
Because the fee to send a Western Union Money Transfer is high,
compared to other methods of payment, we have arranged with the seller
to compensate for half of this fee (i.e. if it costs you $100 to send
the payment, take $50 from the amount insured and send the balance).
Once the payment was sent, email the seller the following information:
1) 10 digit MTCN (Money transfer control number):
2) Exact sender's name on file with Western Union:
3) Your street address on file with Western Union:
4) City and country where you sent the money from:
5) Amount sent:
Then wait for the confirmation the payment was received. Within 3
business days, you will receive the tracking number for your
merchandise.
Purchase protection and refund:
*****************************************************
Currently, this seller has a US$ 20,000.00 deposit in an eBay managed
purchase protection account. Transactions with this eBay seller are
covered by purchase protection against fraud and description errors.
For your safety, this account was locked today, for 30 days time. The
seller is unable to withdraw any money from it, within this period.
Should you need a refund for this transaction, the insured amount will
be taken from the seller's purchase protection account and sent to you.
The refund is sent to your bank account, or by check or money order.
The way you are refunded is at your choice. You have 30 days from the
above verification date to request a refund. Refund requests are
processed within 3 days.
The insurer of this transaction is eBay Inc., located at 2145 Hamilton
Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125, United States of America.
The account is managed by eBay's Square Trade center. This transaction
is supervised by eBay's Safe Harbor team.
****************** CONDITIONS TO BE MET BEFORE YOU MAY ASK FOR A
REFUND *******************************************
Here are the situations suitable for a refund request:
1) If the item doesn't arrive and/or the seller stops communications
after the payment was received;
2) If the merchandise you receive has different specifications than the
ones you agreed on;
3) If your merchandise arrives in a much longer period than the one
you agreed on (more than 15 days from the payment clearance day);
For cases 2) and 3) you have to send back the merchandise to the
seller
prior to ask for your refund. If you did not pay the seller by the
required payment method, your refund request would be declined.
Important Usage Guidelines:
****************************************************
1. The contact information should only be used for resolving matters
related to eBay. Any other use is strictly prohibited.
2. This transaction is protected by eBay services such as insurance,
feedback and dispute resolution.
3. You may buy and sell with confidence in all transactions with this
eBay member.
4. If you need to dispute this transaction, keep the transaction number
at hand when contacting eBay. Any complaints must be filed within 30
days from the verification date.
This e-mail message was sent to you from eBay SafeHarbor team, with
the full support of the SquareTrade center.
The seller was informed about this transaction being started and is
awaiting your payment. It is recommended to send the payment as soon
as possible, because your purchase protection is valid for 30 days
only.
DISCLAIMER: Do not pay with a cash transfer for a transaction eBay
never insured. Never use Western Union Money Transfer or Money Gram
to pay a seller which credibility and payment address was not verified
by us. You are most likely to lose your money and never receive the
merchandise you paid for. If a seller requires cash transfer and you
do not have this kind of purchase protection, please do not
participate.
If you encounter any problems with this transaction, please contact us.
When contacting our support team, use the reply feature so that all
previous correspondences are included in your email. Otherwise, we
will not be able to process your request.
To ask for a refund, simply reply to this notification and enter in
the subject line

Account Protection
Protect your eBay account - eBay will not ask you for sensitive
personal information (such as your password, credit card, bank
account numbers, etc.) in an email.
Thank you for using eBay!
<http://www.ebay.com/>

This eBay notice was sent to you based on your eBay account
preferences because one of our Power Sellers (Patrick Bergun)required
us to send you a confirmation in his behalf. If you would like to review your
notification preferences for other types of communications, click here.
Top of page

Copyright © 1995-2004 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective
owners.
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the eBay User Agreement
and Privacy Policy.


(Yeah, sorry it's so long!)


This brings me upto now.

"Have I been messing around with a genuine seller?". I thought I'd really screwed up this one.

Then I read the ebay email, "Payment must be sent by: Western Union Money Transfer".

Ebay would NEVER include this. There are far too aware of the dangers of Western Union and Moneygram scams.


So there we go.

I'm going to contact ebay and ask them if they sent this email. I believe the FedEx email is genuine - after all, it doesn't cost anything to only prepare sending a parcel.

I'll let you know what happens!
wow
 

UPDATE - He's got negative feedback too!

Postby wow » Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:31 pm

http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws1/eBayISAP ... id=vrj_cij

Here's some fairly damning evidence.

Now I can feel happy stringing him on, and on and on...

I once pissed off a fraudster for 3 weeks, negotiating payment that I knew would never happen.

I'd question the security, he'd reassure and I'd seemingly be happy. I'd find another problem, he'd reassure...aw, fun times ahead.
wow
 

Postby peg » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:10 pm

As you have surmised, it sounds like this too, is a fraud. I have never known eBay to be in the "Escrow" business. By the description of the transaction method it is almost exactly like an escrow. You can contact eBay, but I doubt you will get much more than their (less then usefull) *spam* response, "Thank you for contacting eBay's Safe Harbor..... Blah, Blah, Blah"

Also, I have gotten similar FedEx messages (also UPS) but they too can be forged. If it's not forged, it's likely any expenses incurred through them are actually paid for by a stolen credit card.

Finally, Even Western Union discourages the use of their services for Internet transactions. http://www.westernunion.com/info/faqSecurity.asp Their FIRST recommendation to protect yourself is to "Make sure you know to whom you are sending money. Only transfer money to someone you know personally or whose identity you can verify!"

Thank you for your input and your efforts to help stop Internet Fraud. The more of us there are, the better. Any thing that I can do to help, let me know.

Regards...
Last edited by peg on Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Still got him on a hook

Postby isitfraud » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:04 pm

Well, just wanted to post an update to say that I'm still receiving emails from this guy and providing encouragement, by promises that money will be sent.

He's clearly getting impatient but cant afford to show it in his emails. My responses must be incredibly infuriating, "So which department of ebay do I send my credit card details to?" or "Where do I send you the cheque?". He has made it very clear that he wants payment via westernunion and has given a name and address.

What I may end up doing - if I have the inclination, is send payment through Western Union in a different currency. I could tell him that it'd be easy to convert the currency on his side but that I can get a special rate for some reason or other.

For now, I think I'll email to let him know that I've contacted FEDex and requested payment details for the shipping. All because I feel it'd be unfair for him to pay them, lol. Actually, I could contact FEDex and let them know about the whole scam. That's a better idea as he might lose out on a bigger scale if they've taken the payment via stolen credit card.

I'll let you know.
isitfraud
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Postby pace78921 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:34 pm

Let me inform you of what happened to me two weeks ago,

I was offering a Canondale Super V-500 Mountain bike on eBay for around $748 USD, being that the msrp for that model Canondale is around $1500 USD. I was contacted via e-mail by a potential buyer who has zero feedback, his eBay ID is " oletiti3 "( 0 ) I am an eBay seller and know how troublesome zero feedback buyers can be! So, the so called "buyer" sent me a cashiers check in the mail for $1300 USD and he said to me that their is excess funds on the cashiers check and for me to wire the excess money back to him after I ship the bike.

So, I went to Cash the check and ended up in hand cuffs because the check was completely bogus and fraudelent and was charged with a felony of fraud, but ultimately the charge was completely dropped due to the information I provided the police about the person who sent me the check. I had their full name and address, but the person lived in Nigeria! So obviously the police department did absolutely nothing to prosecute this person, mainly because it is out of U.S. territory and also lack of interest on their part. Luckily I was not going to deposit the check into my bank account and while the check would be "pending" its' deposit, the buyer wanted me to wire him the excess amount and ship the bike, and then once the check bounced, the buyer would have gotten $300 and a new Canondale super-v 500 and I would get nothing. I had so much trouble from this character in Nigeria and his fake check. I also have received fake bidpay.com e-mail confirmations trying to get me to ship items. There is so much fraud going on these days it's quite insane.
pace78921
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