What do you think about this deal?

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What do you think about this deal?

Postby Pog0na » Wed May 05, 2010 4:13 am

Hello, I live in Canada and i'm interrested to buy a car in UK. It's the first time I do this and I would like your opinion about if it is a fraud or not. Personnaly i do not have a bad feeling but I want to see opinion of other persons.

Context : I was looking for an Audi S4 B5 on Quebec used car sites and I foud the perfect car for me at VERY low price. I contacted the owner and realized that he moved to UK and the car was with him. He said that due to his location he will pay the shipping for me. Due to the very low price of the car (3100$ Canadian) I didnt understood how can he make cash if he pay the shipping?!? Finally he said me that he was only paying 800$ to ship the car... The other thing I found weird is that at the beginning he seemed to not mention the exact company he wanted to use for shipping... Finally he said me that he was not at home and that he will say me the exact name ass soon as he come home.

Why he sell? : First, he just got married and need cash for honey moon, etc. Second, he just moved to UK so the car have the wheel on the wrong side ans I imagine he prefer to buy a more recent car that is more adapted to his new city...

This is how he want to proceed to make the deal :

First know that he want to use a third party to make sure the deal is going correctly and that there is no fraud from both side (good point. :) )

- So first I send him my adress and full name at home
- He start the shipping (give me traking ID and everything) and I have 24 hour to pay the half (1500$) to the third party and the cash will hold in canada
- I will receive the car at home and have 3 days to test it and make a mecanical test in garage if I want.
- Finally, if i'm satisfied with the car I make a go to send him the first half and after that I send him the rest of the money

Do you trust this story? Personally I trust him but is it that perfect deal for me that make me not see a problem? The only thing that scared me a little bit was the way to make the deal was VERY SIMILAR of Fraud I read about... There are some difference that reassure me. like the fact that my money stay in canada before my final decision. The fact that he will give me the traking code during the shipping.

The thing I want to know is : Is there a possibility for me to get fraud? Does is method for the payment/shipping is the normal way to proceed or there is something wrong?

Thank you for helping me! I hope there is no scam in this because the deal I'm about to do is just perfect!
Pog0na
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby lightfair » Wed May 05, 2010 11:06 am

Pog0na wrote:Do you trust this story?


No.

Pog0na wrote:The thing I want to know is : Is there a possibility for me to get fraud?


Yes, this possibility is very close to 100%. Don't do it. It's a very typical and well-known scam.

Of course you'll get a tracking number; but what does that tell you? There is no company doing the shipping; it's all set up by this guy. So this (non-existing!) company sends you a mail that they have the car in their custody but in reality it's the scammer himself. There is no car to begin with.
As far as the money goes: This will likely end up on the account of a so called "money mule" from which it will get re-transferred directly to the scammer within hours.

So once again: Don't send any money. You may want to act as if you don't suspect anything so far so that the guy gives you the name and web address of the shipping company; then we can investigate it and (hopefully) have the hoster kill it quickly.
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby Pog0na » Wed May 05, 2010 12:17 pm

He said me I will pay at a desk with money cash. not tranfer from account. And i realized the real reason he sell in Quebec. The car have already immatriculation for quebec...
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby lightfair » Wed May 05, 2010 2:06 pm

Don't be too surprised if that "desk" turns out to be a Western Union office...

You could post a few short snippets from his mails. Most of the time those are used over and over. So if you post something from the mail in which he described the procedure I might recognize it (I have dozens of those mails).
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby Pog0na » Wed May 05, 2010 5:37 pm

This is the complete communication we got about the deal. The text is adapted to this situation, I dont think it was used in other scam.

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:40:45 +0000

Hello,
Sorry I haven't gotten back with you sooner.I still have the car for sale.Right now i am located in United Kingdom, i just got married.I will handle the shipping.I have to sell the car because i need the money for my honey moon (want to go in a DREAM honey moon).My wife and i deserve it. It's in perfect condition without any mechanical problems,with no damages or hidden defects,no need for additional repairs,clear title.The engine size is 6 cylinder 2.7 liter.Yes it is quattro.Everything on it is in excellent working condition.The car never never had accidents.I am waiting your soon reply if you are interested to purchase my car.

Thank you,


From: (ME)
To: (SELLER)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 13:39:26 -0400

Hi, I am still very interrested about your S4. There is one thing I didnt understand... The car is still at Amos, Quebec? If the car is like you said in very good condition and with only 135k on it, it yould be perfect for me. But there is one little problem... I cannot buy before the end of the class (i'm in sec 5) because i dont have all the money and my parents will pay me the difference Only if I pass school... I'm sure I will, but I wont get money from my parents before that... For your honey moon you need cash very soon or you can wait for summer? Your price is very good if I compare with other A4/S4. I really want that car and I hope you can wait for the summer. I you can't I understand and I will try to find something else...

Thank you for considering my offer, Jean-Francis

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 20:45:45 +0000

Hello,
Unfortunately the car is here with me in UK but is not a problem because the shipping and handling are included in the price.Yes it has 135,000 miles becase the car is US model.The vehicle is in excellent running and body condition, never had an accident and there are no flaws on it or any other mechanical problems. There is no lien against the car. I can assure you that it is in perfect shape, has never been involved in any accidents, has no scratches, and the engine runs perfectly.

I`ll take in payments.Let me know what amount you have right now??If you have half now will be OK and maybe we will can close the deal until the summer.

I`ll waiting your soon email.Thank you.


From: (removed)
To: (SELLER)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 21:33:09 -0400

Hello, I just wanted to know some information about the payment and the shipping. Witch compagny you wanted to use to ship the car to canada? and do you know if there is a way to see the car before my final decision? (Just because it is a big risk to buy something I never saw...) And how do you wanted me to pay you? transfer from bank account? And do you know what kind of contract we need to use when we buy from other country?

Thanks, Jean-Francis

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:13:02 +0000

Hello,
I live in UK,London.Of course,everything on the car is in excellent condition.The timing belt was changed about 30.000 miles and it is still on the warranty 40.000 miles.As you know it need to be change again on the 70.000-70.000 miles.As I said the car dosen`t need anything.It looks and runs great.It is ready for the road.No,it not has been kept in garage.Yes the price is canadian dollars.Also my bottom price is $3,000.So,if you have right now the half $1,500 we will can close the deal and you will have to send me the other half on the end of June.I have attached pics with the car.I don`t have a bank account.For the shipping i prefer to use same carrier because I am pleased with their services,I have used them to bring the car to UK, and it has arrived with no scratch because it was professionally crated. The car will land on the closest airport to your address and then on trailer to your home and I will provide you the tracking number so you will inspect the shipment route online on their web site,being insured that the car is coming to you.The estimated time of delivery is 8 days. I'm willing to cover the shipping fees due to my location, and you will not pay extra for it. We will make the deal in this matter: first you will send me all your details for the delivery( full name and address).As soon as I'll receive this informations and your acceptation to start the shipping process I'll go to the shipping Company,make all the paper works and ship the car to your address .After all will be ready and the shipping process started I will give you all the necessary data for you to verify that the car in in the shipping Company custody and is coming to your address( Tracking Number,Receipt).You can verify the shipping route online.I checked a lot about a potential transaction between me and the buyer and for both safety we will use an escrow service.In this way both of us will be protected and the deal will be correct.So, after you will verify you shipment route online and all other data that I'll receive from the shipping Company you will have to make a first payment of 50% from the total amount to the shipping Company.An agent from there will handle the transaction and the money will be there in hold until you the car will arrive to your address and until you will be 100% satisfied with the car.You will have 3 days to test it or take it to an Official Service House.After the test period is over you will have to inform me about your decision:
A) If you decide to take the car: The Shipping Company agents have all the paperwork in hand and will help you complete the purchase and after that you will give them the permission to release me the amount.
B) If you decide not to take the car: If you feel not satisfied with the car or it is not like i have described it you can refuse to buy it and then the delivery company will take the car back to me and you will get your money back (the deposit you have paid at the start of the transaction). Before I send the car i need a confimation as you are sure to agree for us to close the deal and that you have the money. I want you to be serious about this because I am spending money with this shipping because i can't aford loosing this money and I will feel obligated to contact the authorities. I want the money to be send in 24h after the shipping will be made.

So, I'll wait your e-mail as soon as possible to let me know about your decision.
Thanks.


From: (removed)
To: (SELLER)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 08:02:32 -0400

Hello, Ive tried to inform myself about buying from other country and the only thing I found was people talking about escrow... dont take this like if I dont trust you I just want more info to make sure the deal is clean because I never made this before. So can you tel me what is the name of the escrow service you want to use so I can go read about it and see for what we are protected? I would also like to know what is the name of the carrier company you use to ship the car. I just want to be sure it is the normal way to make that deal. Right now I'am sure the deal is clean but with theses informations I will be 100% sure and before sending 1500$ I want to be 100% sure of what I am doing... I can assure you that I am very serious about this deal and thats why I dont want to hurry too mutch. I want everything to be ok and I need to talk about this with my parents that are in UK right now. (maybe they can pass and see the car when they will come back to london to take their flight back to canada...) Be sure I wont make you ship the car if I'm not 100% sure i will take it... For all theses reason I think we can start the deal on the beginning of June and after that I will send you the last 50% on the end of June. But I need to talk to my parents first... (they come back on 19 may)
If they really dont want is there a possibility to make the complete deal in the end of June? (I prefer if they accept because this way i can go to my bal in S4 :) )

PS: What is your real name? mine is (removed)

Thank you

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 18:58:22 +0000

Hello,
My name is (SELLER).I am honest man.Trust me I am a family man with 2 kids I am not gonna risk jail for trying to scam someone.As I said in this way we will be both us safetly because that is why we will using a third party from the escrow shipping company.I`ll shipp the car to you first without have anything from you and after I provide you the tracking # to check it`s on your way,after that in 24 hr's you will have to send them the FIRST payment and after receive and test the car you will have to send them the SECOND payment like we agreed and give them the permission to release me the amount.For the shipping i prefer to use same carrier because I am pleased with their services,I have used them to bring the car to UK , and it has arrived with no scratch because it was professionally crated. The car will land on the closest airport to your address and then on trailer to your home and I will provide you the tracking number so you will inspect the shipment route online on their web site,being insured that the car is coming to you. The estimated time of delivery is 8 days. I'm willing to cover the shipping fees due to my location, and you will not pay extra for it.

I`ll waiting your soon email.Thank you.


From: (removed)
To: (SELLER)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 17:51:20 -0400

Hello,
I didn't said it was not clean. My impression is that you are ok and I can trust you. The first reason I want theses informations is not about if the deal is real or just a scam. I just want to get informed as you are of the situation to make sure the deal goes well. I cannot complete the deal if I dont know where I need to pay the first 1500$ And if we use a third party from the escrow shipping company I need to know the name of this company. I know that you are the more vulnerable in this contract because you send your vehicule first but I prefer to get informed. And if im not, it will be impossible to talk about this to my parents because i need to be prepared and know every details of the transaction. I will call the SAAQ to get more info about this kind of transaction and let you know about news. I tried to find what was the approximative price for you to ship the car. What I found is that without using a container with a room you can pay around 1000 Canadian Dollar... Is it what you are doing? And can I know witch company you want to use? For now all I know is that you want to use a carrier...

Tank You

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 23:31:13 +0000

Hello,
Okay.Right now I am not a home and I don`t know the exactly name of them web site to check it.The aprox. name is Fast Deco Ltd. I don`t know sure,I`ll tell you when I go at my home.As I know they will charge me $850 to delivery the car directly at your home address.They will make me an disscount because I`ll using the other company.

I`ll wait your soon email.Thanks.


From: (removed)
To: (SELLER)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 01:13:40 -0400

Hello,
I have called the SAAQ and now I know all what I will need to get immatriculation on the car after the deal completed.

- I will need a copy of your immatriculation certificate right now in your country. (The car is still immatriculed to Quebec or Now have UK plate?)
- I will need to show them the original contract of the deal (can you show me what form will be the contract? because its the first time I buy a car)
- Finally, i will need to show them a copy of the ''customs'' (i dont know if its the good word for ''Douanes'' in french) so i need to show them the bills
+ the taxes fee (customs + taxes fees are at my cost or your?)

This is what I remember of what she said to me, if something is wrong in that or if I forgot something please let me know :)

As you see, I really want this car and I am taking all necessary steps to get informed in purpose of a possible transaction. I am very serious about this and you can be sure that if I make you start the deal is because I am certain at 100% that I will accept it if the car is ok.
I just want to know, do you have other offers than me right now? I know that it is bad for you that I am imposing a delay before starting the deal but I can do nothing about that. If it was possible I would very like to accept right now and make sure to have it because I do not want to lost this opportunit. I really hope it will work for both of us and that we can make a deal in the begening of the summe.

Thank You, (removed)

From: (SELLER)
To: (removed)
Subject: RE: Audi S4 2000
Date: Tue, 5 May 2010 3:31:13 +0000

Hello,
As I have told you the car is still registered in Canada,QC that is why I am trying to sell the car back in Canada there will be no further problems because the car passes CA emissions standards and DOT & EPA as long as it has been purchased in CA space.I`ll send you together with the car all paperwork`s need like, title, key`s and of course a bill of sale with your full name and address so you can registred the car under your name, because with out this paper`s the shipping company will not accept send the car.Yes I talk with other potential buyers.

I`ll waiting your soon email.Thanks.


So what do you think of this? The scam I read about was always automatic messages, in this situation, it was always written by someone... (in only one message he repeat word for word the same thing but I think he didnt realized I was the same person that already communicated with him...) Now I dont know the exact company he want to use for the shipping but I will wait until give me an internet adress so we can investigate about this site...

Thank You,
Pog0na
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby lightfair » Wed May 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Pog0na wrote:This is the complete communication we got about the deal. The text is adapted to this situation, I dont think it was used in other scam.


Well, I think it was used numerous times before.

Do yourself a favour and do a Google search for the following phrase:

"It's in perfect condition without any mechanical problems,with no damages or hidden defects,no need for additional repairs,clear title."

(complete with the quotes, and make sure that also the "similar results" are displayed)

Or you could do a search for

"have to sell the car because i need the money for my honey moon (want to go in a DREAM honey moon)"

which also leads to at least one hit from March.

Or take

"I want you to be serious about this because I am spending money with this shipping "

All those phrases have been used before as you can easily see. Still not convinced?




BTW, I've edited your previous posting to remove your email address and full name so it doesn't get harvested by spammers.
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Re: What do you think about this deal?

Postby lightfair » Thu May 06, 2010 8:41 am

Another addition.

Your "seller" wrote:

Okay.Right now I am not a home and I don`t know the exactly name of them web site to check it.The aprox. name is Fast Deco Ltd. I don`t know sure,I`ll tell you when I go at my home.


Chances are this is going to be this one:

http://fasttimedeco.com/

Found by an aa419.org member; in our database since yesterday night

http://escrow-fraud.com/index.php?page= ... a&id=10406

and probably no longer active by tomorrow.
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